The Liar Kinsella misses the point…again

I understand that a number of haters - two in particular - have gleefully relied upon Messrs. Lemire and Klatt as sources to viciously defame a good man.

Would you regard two notorious supporters of neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups as “experts” in anything? Of course not. Only a hateful fool would do such a thing. the liar warren kinsella *

Strangley, the liar Kinsella does not for an instant deny that Warman was sock puppeting bigotry. “Defame” is an interesting choice of words. I regularly call the liar Kinsella a liar because I have the evidence sitting on my well backed up harddrives that he lied. It is certainly defamatory. It is also true. When the liar Kinsella accuses people of defaming Richard Warman he implies that what they are saying is not true; but, in fact, it may both defame what little character this shrimp has and be completely true. Which Warren knows and which he is using to mount a defense of the little creep.

But the really fun part is that the liar Kinsella would not know a principled argument if it ran over him…twice. I don’t have to agree with, like or even know Lemire to be interested in the evidence he has found of Richard Warman spewing racist, sexist filth about a black, female Canadian Senator. This “good man” has, apparently, written material which would make even Robert McClelland blanch. Exposing this sock puppet bigot and the Human Rights Commission which enables him is vitally important to anyone who values free expression in Canada. Repellent as I find much of the material that Lemire has helped to put up on the net, the bigger picture is about stopping Warman’s vicious abuse of the CHRC system and investigating the extent to which the CHRC has enabled that abuse.

“Good men” don’t lie. Simple concept Warren. You should try it.

* Yes, I have violated my general policy of shunning the liar Kinsella. If he is willing to go to smear overdrive to defend a racist little man like Richard Warman he needs to be called on it and that means actually linking to the liar’s revolting site.

Written by jay on January 21st, 2008 with 12 comments.
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Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com john begley
#1. January 21st, 2008, at 11:08 AM.

Jay….to tell you the truth i never did care for that Warman Kinsella person.

i remember his attempt to win a Commons seat in North Vancouver waaay back, and i assisted the notorious Doug Collins in resisting Warman’s blandishments…..ahhh, THOSE were the days !

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com darrell
#2. January 21st, 2008, at 10:50 PM.

warren kinsella is a nasty piece of business. Unable to see the larger picture, only his personal biases/benefit. here’s what I wrote about the HRC http://www.darrellepp.com and here’s my bio on james madison. http://www.darrellepp.com/?p=81

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com Hans
#3. January 22nd, 2008, at 12:04 AM.

Note how he twists facts in order to draw the smear out further: (a) it is not enough that a person relies on sources, but that person has to be characterized as a “hater”; (b) and it is not enough that a person is relying on Lemire and Klatt, he has to go beyond the facts and say that the person regards them as experts; (c) the final shot is that not only are these persons hateful fools, but if some reader out there believes any of it, then they are a hateful fool too. Warren is not interested in truth; he is interested in bullying or manipulating people into toeing the line.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com Kathy Shaidle
#4. January 22nd, 2008, at 1:39 AM.

Normally I’m all for playing “consider the source”. And I have no time for anti-semites. But ISP addresses are ISP addresses, no matter who discovers them.

I know this sort of technical stuff is over Kinsella’s head (heck, it is a bit over mine). But come on. Facts are facts.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com Dr.Dawg
#5. January 22nd, 2008, at 4:56 AM.

Jay:

The Canadian Jewish Congress says the charge is not on. Frankly, I find that compelling. Whether you like Warren Kinsella or not is not the issue at this point. If the charge turns out to be bogus, a lot of paper is going to fly.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com elixelx
#6. January 22nd, 2008, at 5:40 AM.

So if “good men don’t lie” that makes you….what?

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com Anonymous
#7. January 22nd, 2008, at 9:13 AM.

You’re sounding quite a bit like a big ol’ liar yourself lately, Jay. The issue is, you trusted evidence without first ascertaining whether it had been falsified or not.

That’s a big no-no.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com George Healy
#8. January 22nd, 2008, at 9:45 PM.

It’s not hard to alter the contents of a database to achieve matching IPs. The source of this allegation is suspect.

And, according to Canada’s libel law, those who make these claims are guilty until they prove their innocence. Their credibility is very much an issue.

I’m having a hard time understanding why this claim is considered credible given the source.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com jay
#9. January 22nd, 2008, at 11:16 PM.

George, while it is possible to alter the ip data base that still leaves the question of why the complaint was dropped as soon as the IP addresses were sought.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com jay
#10. January 22nd, 2008, at 11:17 PM.

I’m on the road and will only be checking in sporadically

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com jay
#11. January 23rd, 2008, at 10:06 AM.

Dawg, that the CJC is backing Warman is not a huge surprise. Nor is it determinative. As I recall they gave him some sort of award for his anti-neo-Nazi “work”.

The more interesting question is whether Warman is willing to let fly the paper.

George, libel is a civil action and no one is “guilty”. Should Warman decide to sue he opens himself to detailed Discovery and part of that discovery would be an examination of his billing records and the ip assignments on the relevant dates as provided by his ISP. It appears that the last time people got access to those records a part of a CHRC complaint was “disappeared”.

What we’re seeing is pushback. People like the liar Kinsella - by his own admission a Lenin fanboy - consider pushback - with sly little sentences - a part of Kick Ass politics.

We’ll see what happens when the spin has settled.

Get your own gravatar by visiting gravatar.com Blazingcatfur
#12. January 23rd, 2008, at 7:01 PM.

It is my understanding that ISP’s such as Rogers are required to keep records for some years. That will ultimately tell the tale. As for the CJC, well Warren’s references and the Len Rudner letter itself are so vague that I suspect they are meaningless. This is as Jay states merley push-back - long a tactic of Kinsella, threats, bluster etc are all part of his playbook.

As for Warren’s contention to consider the source, well if the shoe fits as they say;)

There is a lot at stake here, for all of us, but especially for the CHRC & Warman, even the CJC will look bad, it is no small wonder that we see Warren’s bluster.

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