Oh those crazy Canadians…
You can lead them to kool-aid but you can’t make them drink.
This “disturbing new poll” basically reveals that… millions of Canadians think exactly like I do, just as they have for generations, and still do outside places like Toronto and Vancouver.For example, here are some of the “disturbing” findings:
* 45% believe that mainstream Islam encourages violence. Oddly enough! Not sure where folks get that idea… * 26% believe Sikhism encourages violence. I think that’s pretty low, considering all male Sikhs claim it is their religious duty to carry knives. Oh, and then there’s this… * 62% think “laws and norms should NOT be modified to accommodate minorities.” five feet of fury
Kathy has the new Macleans poll and, big surprise, 40 years of multicult and vismin embrace have not changed the hearts and minds of Canadians.
I want to see the whole poll but I’ll bet a buck that the poll did not ask questions like, “Should immigration levels be reduced during a recession?” or “Should immigration from Islamic nations be discouraged?” I mean we would not want to scare the horses.
One of the many things Harper has yet to clue into is that 40 years of mass immigration have annoyed a great number of Canadians. 300,000 a year more immigrants, increasingly drawn from backward Islamic nations like Somalia (‘cause the Chinese and the Indians are less inclined to come now that they coining money at home) plus a refugee “system” which is beyond broken, plus assorted gang slayings rather directly traceable to that immigration, are not sitting well with the majority of Canadians. Pace Bernie Farber, but this is a reasonable response to an assault perpetrated by an isolated elite (who can afford to send their kids to private school or have the pull to get them into ESL free French immersion).
At some point, and it may be rather sooner than people think, politicians who are willing to confront the horrible mistake that mass immigration is, are going to begin to speak for that majority. I suspect the trigger will be an unemployment rate greater than 10%. At that point the question comes up, do we need extra people?
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
And wait ‘til the Mexicans start showing up. Non-English speaking, unskilled, below average IQs, largely overweight (with all the costly health costs that entails), from a culture in which corruption and lawlessness is considered normal, formal education and literacy has little value, and no-one got the thirty years of “gringo” PSAs against drunk driving, wife beating, gay bashing, littering and animal cruelty.
And please don’t tell me they’re “Catholic” and therefore have “traditional family values” and will vote Conservative one day (you party hacks). They really are no such thing except in white people’s self-serving fantasies.
Press 2 for No Thanks.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
One thing I can never figure out, we have a homeless problem where are all these refugees and immigrants living, can they afford to buy condo’s as soon as they get here?
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Hell I hope that got published. I don’t want to write it all again.
Kathy,
If it is any consolation we have always known you speak for more mainstream Canadians than any media source.
I do wonder though if Mr. Whyte isn’t snickering out of the other side of his mouth. If he is half the man I think he is, he is.
After all that “disturbing” demograph are his targeted audience.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Shit Jay a whole spiel on average Canadians disappeared into cyberspace.
Must be the damn liberals.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Those Mexicans?
They’re already showing up in Windsor claiming refugee status.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
“26% believe Sikhism encourages violence. I think that’s pretty low, considering all male Sikhs claim it is their religious duty to carry knives.”
two ways to look at it.. thats one way… simple math 100-26= 84 ..hence, 84% have a better understanding of the Sikh faith than you do..
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Er,74%.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
“One of the many things Harper has yet to clue into is that 40 years of mass immigration have annoyed a great number of Canadians.”
Agreed, but I think the finer point revolves around multiculturalism. The 62% stat related by Kathy implies that minorities should adapt to Canadian norms and laws, which could be understood to be a Canadian preference for assimilation rather than a flat multicultural fabric with no clear set of values trumping others. Mass immigration wouldn’t be half the nightmare it is becoming (and is) if Canada adopted an assimilation approach to immigration instead of an open-door, come-as-you-are approach. It is the latter that permits—encourages even—the various immigrant groups to bring their regional problems to this country.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Kathy – Have you ever lived in an area with a lot of Hispanics?
I live in LA and all around me they are working hard – cutting the lawns, serving food, cleaning the houses, doing manual labor, etc. In other words, pursuing the American dream, just like the Eastern Europeans (to take but one example) who came to Canada and the U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th and who faced all the calumnies you are visiting on Hispanics.
BTW, the idea that Catholicism fosters moral behaviour is risible. As Hitchens said of the church’s educational policies – no child’s behind left.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Archbishop Chaput of Denver in a lively press conference told all gathered that for Denver, Colorado hispanics constituted 51% of his diocese.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:10 pm
It’s strange, though, how many neoconservatives complain about immigrants doing the same work for less pay, and then turn around and complain about minimum wage laws, equality legislation, and unions. Canadian business owners’ willingness to exploit immigrants who are used to a lower standard of living isn’t fixed by stopping immigration, it’s fixed by stopping our exploitative companies. The less they can get away with paying (see study cited below for losses to the economy, I think it’s $12B), the less money flows into the economy, so we’re really blaming the wrong people here.
And you can’t really think that the number of immigrants is directly proportional to the number of unemployed Canadians. ( # of jobs ) / ( # of citizens ) ! = employment rate. There are lots of jobs that don’t get filled; there are lots of citizens who choose not to work for various reasons, and there are lots of jobs that can’t find qualified applicants, unequally distributed across a vast geographical area. Our restaurants were trying to hire through the foreign workers’ program because they couldn’t get locals to do the work. The Labour Council suggested they try paying a living wage instead, but apparently that was asking too much…
Then too new people = a new tax base, new community members, new non-salaried productive labour (read: volunteers and parents). In fact, we’re losing billions because we’re not properly using the skills that immigrants have – don’t forget that it’s not easy to get into Canada and, unlike what the bigoted commenter above seems to think, those who are accepted tend to be more skilled than the average Canadian, not less.
Let’s put it this way: I’m far more concerned about my job going overseas than I am about an immigrant taking it here.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Let me repeat in this context what I always preach:
Immigration is a privilege, not a right.
!!
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Learn to speak at least one of our two official languages
If you’re not willing to integrate and play by our rules, you’re more than welcome to use a special boat we’ve set aside for you (with a hole in it, but not bucket), which you can use to paddle back to the old country.
By the by, I absolutely love what Mahfooz Kanwar recently
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Sorry the link was cut off:
http://www.wernerpatels.com/2009/03/my-hero-mahfooz-kanwar.html
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Seems to be a lot of assimilation in Canada via inter-marriage. Read the death notices in any daily paper any day and you see it.
Look at the marriage notices and the birth announcements and the couples walking the street.
I look at my own family and the impact that inter-marriage has had on the next generation. I hardly think that my case is that unique.
Even if our governing class isn’t wise enough to notice.
I prefer a some kind of pan-Canadian identity but that seems to have died with Diefenbaker.Probably imposssible in Canada because of the special case of Quebec/
Seems a continuing obsession with the inability of immigrants to adapt. Even a century ago and this guy.
http://ca.encarta.msn.com/sidebar_461511286/from_strangers_within_our_gates.html
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm
I’ll simply say this: As an “nth” generation Canadian (I have no idea what my “roots” are…I assume “European” since I’m white) I would not sacrifice anything (certainly not my life) for this damn country. Canadian citizenship doesn’t mean a rat’s ass…it’s cheap and easy.
April 24th, 2009 at 1:09 am
Seeing that no one can get “white” Canadian women to have babies, immigration is here to stay. The pool of europeans who generally have our so called values has disappeared down the same demographic drain.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:54 am
Renee: “It’s strange, though, how many neoconservatives complain about immigrants doing the same work for less pay,...”
=========================
Huh??
April 24th, 2009 at 4:29 am
How long will you continue to live there?
The previous waves of immigrants were skilled laborers: Jewish tailors, Italian bricklayers, Germans, Poles—people with trades and an ok education. The Irish weren’t geniuses but they spoke something resembling English so that helped when they finally got their act together.
They all came from cultures that valued culture and literacy (although the Italians less so), and which promoted some kind of rule of law, sense of tradition, valued hard work.
Mexicans are the opposite. Notice all the jobs you mentioned. In Mexico you are only required to attend school until 8th grade. Are any of those around you doing anything above menial labor? When those jobs dry up, and they will, they will all go on public assistance. Mexicans collect 3 dollars in benefits for every dollar they pay in taxes. Assuming they pay taxes, which is another story.
For every Mexican you see mowing the lawn, there is a wife, a grandma and a pregnant teenage daughter at home collecting every cent of benefits they can get using their matricula cards. And a son or two in prison, costing the State thousands each year.
They also do not tend to assimilate. Groups like La Raza have infiltrated the schools and communities and strongly discourage Mexican immigrants to call themselves Americans, or learn English. This is the exact opposite of previous waves of immigration; you may have noticed there was never a “press 2 for Yiddish” option…
Mexico also does not vaccinate like we do. Illegal aliens bring in polio and other diseases previously eradicated. This is a simple fact. Ask the Centers for Disease Control, or one of the doctors in your neighborhood for that matter.
Surely if you believe in diversity, you must believe that all cultures are different, otherwise the word diversity has no meaning.
Are you therefore willing to accept that all the things wrong with Mexico that makes it a place people want to escape from is now being imported INTO the US and is making it a living hell for those whites and blacks who can’t move and are forced to support these people financially?
Mexicans have lived in the US in droves since the 1965 immigration reform act. Forty years after their arrival, Jews had invented Hollywood and the comic book industry, and they were treated pretty badly. The US rolled out the red carpet for Mexican, but can you tell me how many Mexican Americans have invented something of consequence?
They are net takers not contributors, which makes them the exact opposite of previous waves of immigrants.
Next question?
April 24th, 2009 at 7:42 am
David, the reason you wouldn’t sacrifice for your country is that you haven’t a clue just how good you’ve got it there. Either that, or you’re an only child, an orphan, completely friendless, and as selfish as they come. Those who do sacrifice for their country embody the nobility that has made western civilization great. Not that I can lay claim to any of that nobility, but I certainly appreciate those who do, and I hope that given the circumstances, I too would find it in me to step up and do my bit.
April 24th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Let’s not forget either that a report last year confirmed the following:
Of all immigrants we have in this country, only 23% are “net tax contributors”. The other 77% are a burden on the taxpayer to the tune of $18 billion
And that number doesn’t include the immense cost of dealing with the crimes those people perpetrate.
If bleeding-heart types want to shove their silly little brains in the sand, that’s their right, but it doesn’t change the fact that all the major and violent crime we see in our cities—Toronto, Montréal, Calgary, Vancouver—such as gangs and organized crime, etc. is predominantly committed by immigrants.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:08 am
haha, Ya I guess I can’t do simple math. That was pretty stupid on my part, fine 74% it is..
Eloquently put by Renee, couldn’t have said it better myself:
Then too new people = a new tax base, new community members, new non-salaried productive labour (read: volunteers and parents). In fact, we’re losing billions because we’re not properly using the skills that immigrants have – don’t forget that it’s not easy to get into Canada and, unlike what the bigoted commenter above seems to think, those who are accepted tend to be more skilled than the average Canadian, not less.
As for you my ignorant friend:
Let’s put it this way: I’m far more concerned about my job going overseas than I am about an immigrant taking it here.
Immigration is a privilege, not a right.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Learn to speak at least one of our two official languages!!
I think the immigrants know very well and to a much better extent than you that immigration is a privilege and not a right. A majority of them are highly educated but still end up driving cabs. Don’t you think if immigration was considered a right by them, they would probably have not pursued a career that requires a level of education that only a fraction of Canadians choose (i.e. Doctors… which brings up another issue of not “having” enough Doctors and the demise of our beautiful public health system)?
For your, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” point. I am a Canadian, well at least I think I am. You probably would not consider me one but that’s not a major concern for me. I am living in England at the moment. I have a social circle that consists of mostly Canadians and Americans living in England. And we as North Americans share common interests etc. Hence, we get together and have fun the way we’re used to. We hold a strong bond to our homeland and we keep it alive. So I ask you, how is that different than any immigrant in Canada. I believe that they have strong roots in there homeland and sometimes there heritage is what makes them the person they are. Why should they kill the person that they are to conform to something that is so vague that they’d probably lose there own self in it? We’ve seen most ethnic communities excel in Canada because we don’t strongly believe that we’re a melting pot like our neighbour down south. And of course because of your sociopolitical views you obviously do not want to believe that a multicultural society as ours can survive with distinguishable identities. I pity you, and as Renee said if we actually utilized the true potential of our immigrant population we would have an unstoppable economy but as always in-the-box thinkers will never agree. Its actually quiet an easy concept, we have a global networking system built right into our country, all we need to do is to utilize it.
For Kathy:
I thought we were talking Canada here? I may be mistaken as some of you guys down south think that we’re the 51st and the most liberal state but thank you we’re happy with our own values.
David:
Cheap and easy you say? hmmm I think everyone is arguing for there Canada here. Since you’re not really on any side, I’d suggest you just count yourself out of the debate because either a neoconservative or one with my views, both will fight for there country. No questions.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Jay what the hell does “Pace Bernie Farber, but this is a reasonable response to an assault perpetrated by an isolated elite (who can afford to send their kids to private school or have the pull to get them into ESL free French immersion).” does that sentence mean “Pace Bernie Farber…”?????????
April 24th, 2009 at 9:56 am
From Latin pace, “in peace”, ablative form of pax, “peace”.
Happy to help, Gus.
April 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Grammar nerd says latin gets italicized!!
April 24th, 2009 at 10:51 am
But the sentence is a non-sequiter…doesn’t make a bit of sense
April 24th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Grammar nerd is right and that’s fixed.
Gus, Bernie is quoted extensively in the Macleans article. Go read Kathy.
April 24th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Damn I thought “Pace Bernie Farber” meant he should be run over by the Pace Car at the next Redneck Rally.
April 24th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Tha’s the trouble with you BCF,a sense of humour only your wife could love (and your friends here)...and Jay, yes I read Kathy (see above) , the usual blah blah …Farber’s a jerk…blah blah….let’s all hate Farber….blah balh…Farber’s a commie…..sheesh do you guys ever change the record?
April 24th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Werner, do you happen to have a link for that report you mentioned? It sounds like something I should read.
April 24th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Sorry, Kathy, I was looking for the old link the other day myself—it was at nationalpost.com, written up by J. Kay, but then they remodelled their site and for some reason that particular article has been lost in the shuffle.
I am sure Kay will direct you to his actual source documents if you contact him.
He’ll have to clarify one thing anyway: do the 77% of laggards cost us $18 billion every year, or is that a total number? I think it’s every year.
April 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Kathy,
I actually just finished setting up an archive of my web columns (I had them on a different site, but then deleted the whole darn thing due to a foolish mistake on my part), and I’ve located last year’s web column I wrote about this, and it still shows the link to Kay’s article on the report:
http://wernerpatels.net/2008/03/14/immigration-must-benefit-the-host-country/
Maybe with this you’ll be able to track it, especially if you contact Kay @ National Post directly. I am sure he’d help you out with this.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Hmmm. Forty some years ago my now ex-husband emigrated to Canada from Iraq. He landed in Regina (of all places) with 50 cents in his pocket. Got a job the next day selling shoes. He was an Engineer by training and within a short time got a job as a draftsman, but eventually went back to school to get an Canadian engineering degree. Today, he’s a millionaire.
Most of the immigrants I know are professionals. Most have contributed and continue to contribute economically to the country and to the communities in which they live and a great many of the immigrants that I know are not European in origin.
What pisses me off the most is that so many of them with good credentials are not able to work in their profession until they acquire Canadian credentials and were unaware that that would be the fate that awaited them when they arrived. We need to do a better job of being up-front about things like that.
I think immigrants continue to take jobs that one else will do and often hold down two or three jobs and have several members of their families doing the same thing. I admire that spirit and determination. Far too many complacent third or fourth generation Canucks don’t have that.
April 24th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Aw Gloomy Gus lighten up – we don’t hate Bernie – just his lame brained ideas.
April 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Louise,your ex-husband’s story and, I suspect, tens of thousands like it, tell me a couple of things about our current system. First, we should be paying attention to credentials and expediting the use of those credentials. It is idiotic to have engineers driving cabs. Second, the 20/80 mix of economic vs. family class immigrants is making those sorts of stories less and less common.
We need to have a conversation about immigration and it needs to begin with stories like this one.
April 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I agree with the bit about the family thing versus the economic one, Jay. The thing about the credentials is hard to solve. In many cases, it’s professional associations that determine standards for accreditation. That’s the case with engineering, in any case,and they are subject to change and evolution. To the extent that that still exists, and I believe it does, there ought to be some way of letting potential immigrants know what to expect. If there are certain schools overseas that produced graduates whose training is accepted, people should know that so they can attend those school.
There was also no welfare for immigrants back then either. They either had to come with sufficient money to support themselves, or be ready and willing to work at anything right away. When my ex arrived in Regina he found a place to live in a basement suite in an old lady’s house (having suites in the basement was still legal, but it isn’t now), and she took his passport as collateral since he couldn’t pay rent. Kind of a great incentive to get to work.
April 24th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
They don’t make old ladies like they used to.
But, yes, the credentials thing is a huge problem. But it should not be a surprise problem. We should be clear about what the situation is in the various professions and it might not be a bad idea for the professional associations to provide tuition and testing for prospective immigrants prior to their admission.
April 25th, 2009 at 3:54 am
One thing immigrants spend a lot of money on are phone cards for overseas calls. They keep in touch with people back home constantly (not a good thing.)
So why don’t these cab driving brain surgeons take a break from see how the local soccer team is doing and TELL THE PEOPLE BACK HOME NOT TO COME HERE CUZ THEIR CREDS WON’T BE RECOGNIZED????
Why is this always presented as a surprise to the doctor involved?? And what does that tell you about the doctor’s intelligence…?
Why does there always have to be a bureaucratic/political solution that I have to pay for, when a free common sense one already exists? Jesus.
And maybe their credentials aren’t recognized because they suck. Would you really prefer a grad from Delhi U operating on your child, or one from McMaster?
Mohamed Elmasry and Syed Sowarardy are both computer engineers. Elmasry hangs with 9/11 truthers and knowing Syed, he’d believe anything one of them told him too, even if the theories weren’t scientifically plausible. Gee, I’d like to review their credentials too, wouldn’t you? Paper credentials aren’t everything—what about worldview?
And we need more people like them because…? Think about how much these two idiots alone have cost us.
April 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
This discussion has triggered in me the need to write a new web column:
http://www.wernerpatels.com/2009/04/multiculturalism-leads-to-hatred-racism-and-segregation.html
April 25th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Kathy,
Your brand of nativist conservatism is repellent.
Are there abuses in the immigration system that need reform?
Of course, but treating all immigrants as if they are the moral equivalent of
Elmasry is untenable. As is your habit of arguing by anecdote.
As I said in my earlier post, the smears that you are parroting today are exactly the same ones that were made against the people (largely from eastern and southern Europe) who came to Canada and the U.S. at the turn of the 20th century – culturally alien, uncivilized, lazy, violent, and, in some cases, Catholic (ironic, isn’t it, that you are employing the same mode of argument that was used to smear your co-religionists a century ago).
And while we are on the subject of your intellectual honesty, I’d love to know how you can justify calling Warman’s lawsuit against you a violation of your right to free speech. Warman is loathsome. But you (and the others) made an unproven assertion about him. As such, he has every right to sue you. I hope he loses and loses badly. But what you are facing is not the equivalent of a section 13 complaint or a charge under the Criminal Code.
April 27th, 2009 at 3:39 am
http://deadreckoningfubar.blogspot.com/2009/04/silly-media-take-on-relgious-poll.html
Finally, a Canadian who has his/her head on straight.