Is there a difference between Hamas and Israel?
Why yes, yes there is:
Alas, the civilian death toll will unavoidably mount, which is deeply regrettable. But what must be understood is that Hamas have deliberately situated their weapons under apartment blocks, in mosques and in hospitals.The Israelis build bomb shelters for their civilians; Hamas store bombs underneath their civilians in order to create as many civilian casualties as possible to manipulate world opinion.
What people find so hard to grasp is that Hamas actually want to maximise the number of Palestinians who are killed because, as they boast: ‘We desire death as you desire life.’ melanie phillips
January 8th, 2009 at 4:19 am
“Regrettable”? Sure. What’s interesting is that, after an 18-month blockade on food, water, and gasoline – along with a ban on exports, so that unemployment climbed to record highs – there are any Palestinians still alive to bomb. Israel probably views that as regrettable too. This is an interesting article that you should read.
PS: According to my British friends the Daily Mail is a rag fit only for delivering Soccer scores and the Page 3 girl… The Guardian, on the other hand, is a reputable paper with a history of doing actual reporting.
January 8th, 2009 at 4:46 am
Oh, and this one speaks to some of the other points…
January 8th, 2009 at 4:47 am
Shit. Could you change that link to here? That one will not work, I was on the wrong screen. The Facebook screen. :)
January 8th, 2009 at 7:21 am
What’s particularly interesting about this, is that the evidence that Hamas is using houses of worship, education and healthcare as places to store weapons is incontrovertible.
The Hague Conventinon IV, Article 18 states that “Civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded and sick, the infirm and maternity cases, may in no circumstances be the object of attack but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict.”
“States which are Parties to a conflict shall provide all civilian hospitals with certificates showing that they are civilian hospitals and that the buildings which they occupy are not used for any purpose which would deprive these hospitals of protection in accordance with Article 19.”
The Hague Convention IV, Article 19 states that: “The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.”
Article 28 states that: “The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.“.
Which makes me particularly enjoy those who claim Israel is in violation of international law. Hamas, as the belligerent and ruling power in this case, has specific obligations required of it to prevent civilian safe areas from being the target of enemy attack.
I actually had a lefty tell me that they support Hamas using hospitals and educational facilities to store their bombs because it the “only way they have a chance”. Then same one turns around and claims Israel is violating international law by attacking these targets. When in fact, Hamas is robbing these areas of any protection they would have under international law by using them for such purposes.
January 8th, 2009 at 7:25 am
... further to that… Hamas is committing war crimes simply by virtue of using these facilities as weapons caches in the first place.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Mike: Collective punishment – denying access to food and water, basic necessities of life, to a civilian population – is a war crime.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Renee, there is not a shred of evidence that Israel denied or is denying those basic necessities. If you want to find what such denial would look like look at Darfur or parts of Zimbabwe. (Actually, now, most of Zimbabwe.)
January 8th, 2009 at 9:46 am
We here this talk about a blockade, and starving Gazans, some blockade,! Hamas found it easy to smuggle in weapons,!
January 8th, 2009 at 9:54 am
And, Renee, this so called war crime also required the active co-operation of those noted war criminals, Egypt.
January 8th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Now you have a righty telling you that, after discovering Hamas’s use of that strategem, the IDF know where Hamas’s weapons caches are, even without looking, and if Hamas still has weapons, it’s because the IDF has let them keep them. Unless one nevertheless wins decisively, the results of such forbearance also include leaving to one’s enemies the means by which to bring up new generations of fighters and fighters’ mothers. But that’s a sort of strategic blunder as routine for the Israelis as it is ridiculous in its own right.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
...and if Hamas still has weapons, it’s because the IDF has let them keep them.
Right. Because “Hamas stores some weapons in hospitals (etc)” logically implies that “Hamas stores all weapons in hospitals (etc).” Oh, and if one presupposes that once Israel has found some weapons, that the flow of replacement weapons will magically stop.
January 9th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Let me know the next time Hamas fills a house full of Israeli civilians and then shells it.
January 9th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Do you have a link that doesn’t go through some sort of progressive voting site, Dawg – because when it comes to the ProgBlogs, I’m of the mind that “you shouldn’t vote; it only encourages ‘em.”
January 10th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Sorry, dcardno (and others)—I don’t know how that happened. Here’s the link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun