A Working Class Hero is Something to be
Dr. Dawg wanted the BBC to deny BNP leader Nick Griffin a place on Question Time. Why?
But the real point is this: I’m not a liberal. I see no reason to grant speech rights to neo-Nazi scum. I don’t lose sleep when they are shut down. I don’t have abstract principles that float above the real world. I don’t think a democratic country is diminished by the absence of a fascist voice in national debates. dr dawg
The flea and five feet of fury both point to Melanie Phillips who writes:
After all, his personal target audience in the country at large are already vilified as ‘racist’ or some variety of ‘phobe’ whenever they seek to support bedrock British values. Every time that accusation is thrown at Griffin on Thursday night, he will go up in their estimation.The liberal intelligentsia has put the BNP’s rise down to the bigotry and imbecility of ordinary people.
Having turned patriotism from a civic virtue into a racial crime, however, it is that elite which has driven thousands of decent, patriotic British people, both white and dark-skinned, to supporting the BNP. melanie phillips
I think Phillips has the right of it and I wrote over at Dawg’s, “As for “mainstreaming fascism”: the BBC had nothing to do with that, years and years of ignoring the concerns of the British working class created the conditions in which the BNP was able to flourish. The British Establishment, both its Conservative and Labour wings, mainstreamed the BNP simply by creating such a vast open space for it to occupy. Major, Blair, Brown and the toadies in their parties and the permanent civil service were so busy promoting “diversity” that they simply refused to acknowledge that working class Englishmen were being driven to the margins. Where the BNP was waiting.
The British Establishment, who would not dream of sending their children to state schools and cannot imagine living in a poor, racially tense, neighbourhood, have kumbayed the BNP into existence. The BBC tried to ignore the alienation of the working class as best it could – after all its executives send their children to the same sorts of schools – but the election of BNP members has now made that impossible.”
There was, but no longer is, a fine working class tradition in the United Kingdom. It was not particularly concerned with the pomo silliness of identity politics. Nor was it even slightly attracted to fascism or communism much to the dismay of the middle class intellectuals who promoted each outmoded ideology.
These people were a bother to the squishy Conservatives and the Cool Britannia Blairites. They were not very progressive and seemed to resent the accommodations they were continually asked to make for immigrants whose presence was rarely welcomed in the neighbourhoods and towns the working class had made its own.
Simply wanting to preserve a way of life which had been hard won, meant these working class people were often pilloried as bigots. Their children were consigned to truly dreadful schools where each succeeding wave of immigrants left those children with less and less of the teachers’ time. Bloody minded “progressives” shut down grammar schools as elitist and shoveled the best and the brightest into the learning challenged comprehensives. The grammars had offered a way out of poverty and, yes, the working class, for generations of people who went on to become the intellectual vanguard of the Labour Party. Now they were gone and that route closed tight.
The social progress of the working class, dear to the hearts of the old Labour Party in the 50’s and 60’s, was transformed into a drive for social accommodation, as the UK sought to absorb the immigration which – for reasons best known to themselves – the progressive middle class somehow thought necessary for the United Kingdom’s economic health. And the people stuck with the accomodation were none other than the working class. Because they lived in council houses, they sent their children to state schools, because they had no choice.
The BNP under Nick Griffin will likely win a few seats in Parliament. Based on his pathetic performance on the BBC, there is very little to fear from Griffin. However, Griffin has taken the first step. The next step will require a leader of more character who carries far less baggage. There is little doubt that so long as the British Establishment insists on marginalizing its indigenous working class such a leader will emerge.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
That Dr. Dawg sees “no reason to grant speech rights to neo-Nazi scum” is not suprising in the least. One of the best reasons to grant speech rights to Nick Griffin is so that we can hear what he has to say for himself. If he really is a neo-Nazi then I would like to be able to form that conclusion myself from his own presentation of his own policies. I do not want to have to take the word of Dr. Dawg for it because I am not allowed to hear him speak for himself. It is sad that Dr. Dawg does not see the irony in his labelling someone “fascist” in order to deny them the right to speak their mind and have their opinions accepted or rejected by others on their own merits or lack thereof, rather than on the say-so of somebody else.
The British National Party would not be my first choice in a political party by any means. It’s economic policies, for one thing, are not to my liking, and whenever I think of them I tend to recall something the late Auberon Waugh wrote about the organization that was in some ways their predecessor. Waugh wrote:
“For myself, I see nothing to choose between the National Front and the Race Relations Board. Both are a collection of bores and busybodies and both are harmful to the extent they are taken seriously”.
There would be no BNP today, however, if the Tory Party had stood up for its own principles and policies on immigration and race-relations 30 years ago when Enoch Powell achieved widespread popularity for giving those principles and policies a voice. Nor would there be a BNP today if the Labour Party had continued to stand for the interests of the electoral base it was purportedly created to represent.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Having grown up in East London, and return there on a regular basis, I agree with Jay. The white working class whose roots are in the East End, rightly or wrongly feel that they are being dispossessed by outsiders,communities have been broken up,the sense of community that the East End has been broken up.Yet if they voice a concern they are accused of racism, and if the BNP are the only people that will listen to them, then expect the consequences .
October 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 am
Jay—your thumbnail history of the relationship between the UK working class and the Labour Party could almost be transmuted word-for-word into a history of the Canadian working class and the CCF/NDP. There may even be an O’Sullivan’s Law of sorts operating—that not only is every organization that is not specifically right-wing fated to become left-wing, but every left-wing organization fated to come under control of an elite that really doesn’t like the people.
Gerry—good comment, and it’s good to hear someone quote Auberon (“Kiss me, Chudleigh”) Waugh on those goofs.
October 23rd, 2009 at 4:50 am
With respect to Melanie, she’s so wrong. The BNP’s constitution specifically notes that they are a whites-only party.
They might as well be Norsefire.
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:10 am
How does the working class get into this?
Are you referring to public schoolboy and Cambridge graduate Nick Griffen? Or the middle class from which he draws his support?
Even in the North West, it was in the affluent areas where the far-right won. According to Arun Kundnani, ‘Noticeably, it is not in the poorer areas of Burnley that the BNP is performing best. These stayed staunchly Labour or, where there was a large Asian anti-war protest vote, went to the Liberal Democrats. But it is in white, middle-class areas where the BNP is strongest. In these areas, there appears to be a significant number of former Tory voters who are unhappy about the Conservative Party’s embrace of “diversity” and have been seduced by the BNP’s “new” policy of “repatriation by consent”’
[Source:http://www.dkrenton.co.uk/research/explaining.htm]
You’ve been sucked in.
As for Phillips’s assurances that Griffin speaks for “bedrock British values,” here are some of Griffin’s “bedrock British values:
He is a former National Front member, convicted of inciting racial hatred against Jews in 1998 and acquitted of similar charges against Muslims in two high-profile trials last year. He is a man who has called Britain a “multi-racial hellhole”, Islam a “wicked, vicious faith”, British Muslims “the most appalling, insufferable people to have to live with”, overt homosexuality “repulsive” and the Holocaust “the hoax of the 20th century”. He has declared that “nonwhites have no place here at all and [we] will not rest until every last one has left our land”.
If the liberal elite had its way, the world would become “a giant melting pot turning out coffee-coloured citizens by the million”.
[Source:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1672185.ece]
Nazi-schmazi.
The BNP is the political equivalent of NAMBLA. Why should British taxpayers have to give this outfit a podium?
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:20 am
Excellent analysis – I hadn’t realized a lot of what you wrote about, but thinking of it now the pieces begin to make sense. It is a similar experience I had in graduate school where the professors spent their careers making ‘improvements’ to the school systems they were so concerned about, but more than a few of those same professors sent their own children to private schools or home schooled their children. When I questioned it I was told that I clearly did not have sufficient understanding of their work and maybe I wasn’t cut out for graduate school. I finished my Master’s but whenever I get a begging letter from the university for money it hits the trash pretty quickly.
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:46 am
It’s quite likely that Dawg isn’t familiar with the concept of “working”, Jay, so the confusion is only natural.
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:38 am
“i don’t have abstract principles that float above the real world”
oh yes you do dr poodle….you most assuredly do have the most pernicious abstract principles that float far far far above the real world…..that is why outside your coterie of like minded small ‘f’ fascisti you are considered a hair splitting voluble fool who peddles the veriest tripe dressed up as some kind of pursuit of social justice…it’s arse-achingly obvious to the meanest understanding that you are and were a mere opportunist now vainly seeking to validate your transgressions against the class you claimed to champion..
but have a nice day anyway…
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:48 am
As usual, it’s more complicated than elucidated above.
The UK used to be a leading industrial power in manufacturing and mining and ship building. These required many kinds of skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled labour. More than a post-WW2 and post colonial Britain indigenous population could supply. Immigration was opened and encouraged.
However by the 1970’s, much of the manufacturing had been sent offshore and other formerly massive base industries shut down or radically reduced. Major centres like Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds became semi ghost towns much like today’s Detroit in the USA.
Thatcherism, that is, extreme economic conservatism became the social order, and combined with rampaging inflation (the UK is an extremely place to live) devastated the working and lower middle classes. This sets the stage for racial conflict as the less than wealthy scramble to survive and compete for diminishing returns. This makes fertile ground for an organized rejectionist movement like the BNP.
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:50 am
Per above should read: (The UK is an extremely EXPENSIVE plave to live)
Thanks.
H.
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:07 am
I started out my (young) adult life as a leftie. It is precisely this phenomenon that drove me into the other end of the spectrum. Of course, NDPers and those further to the left dominated the political discussion in Saskatchewan at that time. These were folks like Dr. Poodle. (Thanks John, that’s a keeper for so many reasons, not the least of which is that pet poodles tend to be preferred by elites, or at least that’s the stereotype) They were and are viciously prejudiced, blind to the facts that stare them in the face and driven to forcefully imposing their stark, frightening version of justice on everyone and anyone who dares to disagree and are not above creating and using false narratives to accomplish it.
Renee, get a brain. The following passages are lifted directly from Phillips article:
“For the strategy being adopted to contain and destroy Griffin is to attack him for being a racist. Which he is.”
[—-]
“The BNP really is racist. Its constitution states it is ‘wholly opposed to racial integration’ between British and non-European people, and that it wants to restore ‘the overwhelmingly white makeup’ of Britain before 1948.”
[—]
“The head of the BNP’s legal team, Lee Barnes, has even advocated the downfall of Western civilisation so that BNP supporters can ‘take power in the ensuing chaos with a mandate for radical change’.”
Typical, Renee. Typical. Exactly what I was referring to at the beginning.
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
Not that there’s anything wrong with being a gay nazi, I have to agree with Dawg that the British taxpayer should be out of the broadcasting business altogether…
October 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 pm
What seems to be lacking in Dawg and Abrams is any sense of historical reality.
When Fascism took over Germany, the lives of the middle class improved measurably and quickly. I’d suggest digging up some german immigrants to ask them, but they are mostly gone now.
Two anecdotes. One a man in his late 20’s, unemployed skilled tradesman, living with his father, handing over his unemployment check to his dad. Within two weeks of Hitler gaining power, he and the million or so in the same situation, received letters telling them where to report for work.
A woman describes how she was afraid to walk the streets before Hitler, and how the streets were cleaned up and made safe.
Of course, if you were jewish or communist or any other group that was hated, that was not the experience. As the woman above described it, ‘if you kept out of trouble, you had no problem’.
Read about the OSS during WW2 and they had no problem finding places to hide outside of germany, but with germany the population would turn them over instantly.
(can any communist regime could brag of those improvements)
Oddly enough, I chatted with a young man a few weeks ago. American, moved to Canada and running a business. He suggested maybe we needed something like that to straighten things out.
To suggest that not giving these people a stage is going to help at all is plain foolish. Argue the ideas. The Liberal were expert at condemning any small idea group as dangerous and radical, and then turn around and implement their ideas in the next budget.
Give the guy a stage. Ask hard questions, not stupid ones. Present a better idea. If immigration is the answer, defend it.
I suspect Dawg and the like can’t. So they hiss and boo and throw their weight around, watching their utopia fall around their ears.
In 2001 the only people who had a cogent fully thought through world view to explain what had happened were the neo-cons. So their ideas were followed.
Everyone else seemed to think it was below them to actually do the hard work of developing ideas, rounding them out in open debate, and selling them. They seemed to think they were right, and were content to self congratulate on their wonderful wisdom.
If Labour or the Conservatives can’t win a debate with this buffoon on an open stage, who are the fools?
Derek
October 23rd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
How can a leftwing party like BNP be a far right party? Why are they the only bad guys whilst the leftwing anarchist joined by Islamofascist riot burn and destroy entire communities?? Why are they the bad guys when the Real Neo Nazis stand beside the Islamofascist and leftwing anarchist rage and rant and rally whilst calling Israel a genocidal nation?? Are they racist probably but are they any less offensive than the leftwing nuts who love to partake of violence in the name of being anti-racists? Frankly the BNP are no more radical than the unhinged NuLabour, Anarchist, professional race baters/Neo Nazis and the Islamofascists if all those people are given a voice why silence the openly racist party???
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Abrams: >However by the 1970’s, much of the manufacturing had been sent offshore and other formerly massive base industries shut down or radically reduced…
Looks like the BNP agrees with you. From their platform:
“Globalisation, with its export of jobs to the Third World, is bringing ruin and unemployment to British industries and the communities that depend on them. Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports. We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers. When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end, and secure, well-paid employment will flourish, at last getting our people back to work and ending the waste and injustice of having more than 4 million people in a hidden army of the unemployed concealed by Labour’s statistical fiddles.”
This is why the left doesn’t want to debate these folks. On most issues they are to the left of Labour. It’s almost like reading Mel Hurtig and the Council of Canadians.
Derek
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
The lefties want to silence the BNP because they’re fighting over the same political space. Outside of the racism the economic policies are pretty close.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
They won’t get near power because their policies are cracked.
But if the establishment doesn’t get a move on, they could get as high as 20% of the vote—that’s what Le Pen got near at his peak.
In the medium term, the vehicle for more sensible policies on culture (i.e., colour-blind, with promotion of traditional values) is the Tory Party. Or UKIP, if the Tories can’t make the jump.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Shorter Dr. Poodle:
“Yeah, I’m a facist—but for the Left…”
—Woody Allen, “Manhattan”
Nick and the BNP are dumbasses, with their whites only policy. However, to quote another (female) standup when dealing with a heckler:
Heckler: “Are you a lesbian?”
Comic: “Are you the alternative?”
October 24th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
harry ‘nebbish abrams…
oh do shut up and go back to sleep you coward…
if you truly wish to fight for the honour and the existence of jews and Israel itself then focus on your real enemy…and that enemy is not time travelling SS posting in basements in moosejaw…it’s the organized conspiracy of islamic fundamentalist living next door to you…
like i mentioned earlier nebbish…you only seem to go after the soft targets…let us see you attack the real threat…unless of course you really are only a pathetic attention seeking twit.. like your veterinarian (the poodledoc)
October 25th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
when i think on all the great jewish fighters throughout ancient to modern history and then encounter the nebbish i stand amazed..
and his friend with the chin of a poet whom i term ‘son semblable…son frere!” otherwise known as docpoodle…
it is then i pray to God for guidance and strength..
the one hunting nazis in a vacuum…the other pleading for a million imaginary indian children buried somewhere …both of them nursing manufactured grievances …both dissporting with delight in their imaginations as being ‘crusaders…
when the real enemy against freedom truth and a decent life for future generations is beyond their courage to assail…
what a pair of pathetic self serving onanistic nitwits.
October 26th, 2009 at 6:20 am
here’s a Latin tag was beaten into me years ago by the Christian Brothers of Ireland…if the poodle and the nebbish have any sense of irony or imagination or introspection they might care to ponder it’s significance vis a vis their behaviour…
‘aquillae non captant muscas”